re: GG: Wagner/Mitch/F & T

[Marco Poli <poli@imiucca.csi.unimi.it>]

Dear Tim,
	although this has nothing to do with the subject of this list, your
message surprised me and prompted some, admittedly very gross,
elucubrations.

When I was young, exactly the same joke you cite was very common in Italy
too (and perhaps it still is).
One is left wondering about "global culture"; in fact, this phenomenon,
apparently so modern, has far reaching roots.   One of my favourite
examples is the diffusion of folk songs, similar both in melody and in
subject, in widely different areas: for example, "Lord Randall", reported
in Child's collection, is well known, under the title "Barun Litrun",  not
only - quite obviously - in Scotland, England and North America, but also
in Piedmonte  (Northern Italy) where it can be traced to at least the XVIII
century.
Very probably a "footprint" of mercenary troops.

Marco



Tim Conway wrote:


Junichi wrote:

>What does "Look, Ma, no hands" mean?
>Is it a phrase a small child who is riding a bike
>without holding the handlebar with his/her hands proudly,
>saying to his/her mother to have her attention and praise?
>Is it a common, idiomatic expression?

I think you have captured the essence exactly, Junichi: GG was talking
about a hypothetical little boy showing off. If I may expand the theme a
little, one of the first jokes I learned (from my aunt when I was about 3
or 4) was:

A boy gets a bike as a birthday present and eventually learns how to ride
it round the outside of the house. He calls his mother to watch. The
first time round he says as he passes her, "Look, Ma, I really can ride".
The second time round he shows off his growing confidence and says,
"Look, Ma, one hand!" The third time he says, "Look, Ma, no hands!" The
fourth and last time, a little later, he is walking and says "Look, Ma,
no teeth".

At that time there were still many American and Canadian servicemen in
Britain and I think my aunt may have first heard the joke herself from
one of them -- I base that on the fact that the use of 'Ma' was not
common in London (where we were living) and the south of England. Most
kids my age used 'Mum' or 'Mummy' or even 'Mother'. If that is the case,
the joke originated in north America and would probably have been
well-known to GG and, I assume, all north Americans.

However, 'Ma' is fairly common in Ireland and in northern parts of
England so it may be a home-grown (British) joke and not one imported
from the States or Canada. But it is clear that GG knows the punchline
well. It was certainly idiomatic and well-understood in England when GG
was young. Whether it was in Canada I leave to others to surmise.

Is it idiomatic now? I doubt it, except in the older generations. Kids
these days have to put on armour before they get on their bikes, that is
if they don't prefer roller-blades. The very thought of a precious
offspring losing one or more teeth would send most parents scurrying to
the lawyer, hoping for someone to blame and extract vengeance (ie, $$$)
from. What was once a joke is now probably held up by the
politically-correct as an example of the cruelty that once existed and
has been successfully expunged. Pshaw and humbug, I say.


- Tim
<timcon@comswest.net.au>
Broome, Western Australia