Re: GG : Trills in Beethoven

["Mark Williamson" <mwilliamson@alston.com>]

     Hmmm, I will have to listen to that for the passage to which 
     you refer.  But I have certainly noticed that tendency in 
     the Beethoven sonatas.  I kind of dig it.  Particularly in 
     the early sonatas, the comparison to Mozart is obvious, but 
     even in later Beethoven, there should always be an effort to 
     reconcile Mr. B's classical roots with his new direction.  
     (Ditto re Schubert.)  And I think Mr. Gould is expert at 
     that . . .


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: GG : Trills in Beethoven
Author:  Michel Crucifix <michel.crucifix@scf.fundp.ac.be> at internet
Date:    5/19/97 9:08 PM


Hello everybody, (sorry for bad English ; I'm French speeking)
     
I've read GG recorded the third piano concerto from Beethoven with Herbert 
von Karajan. I presume this performance is now part of Sony's Glenn Gould 
Edition. I would be gratefull if somebody might give me a light about it. 
     
About the 5vth Beethoven's piano concerto ( GG ; Leopold Stokowski). I am 
quite surprised by the way GG plays the trills in the last movement. In 
fact, he plays them as quarter of quavers - exactly like in Bach or even 
Mozart - and giving as result a "Gould-fashioFrom owner-f_minor@email.rutgers.edu Thu May 22 23:02:06 1997
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From: Alun Severn <alun@ukiah.demon.co.uk>
Subject: More on baroque
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Melissa wrote (and I'm sure won't mind me sharing) the following:

>Meanwhile, now for my dissertation on the Baroque.  The dates are commonly
>agreed to be 1685-1750, to coincide with the exemplary JSB, of course.  In
>art and architecture as well as music, the single most defining facet of
>the Baroque is an ornate yet elegant style.  Very ornate, I'm sure you've
>seen the cupids on the ceiling, etc.  Baroque ornamentation is a
>dissertation unto itself, as the tome by Frederick Neumann will attest.  I
>myself wrote a fairly awful paper on the subject, using the _Versuch_ of
>Quantz as a guide to the various ornaments.  You probably already know
>that most of these ornaments were not written out in the music, but rather
>were improvised according to certain stylistic rules extemporaneously.
>Again, Quantz's treatise outlines the German rules; Bach however, often
>went beyond tradition, or around it, so his ornaments, many of which
>_were_ written down, are a subject all to themselves.  A Henle edition of
>any of Bach's keyboard works will have an appendix telling what
>manuscript has what ornaments for a given piece, then it's up to the
>performer to decide which is closest to the master's wishes (or the
>performer's, if he's not particularly interested in authenticity).  The
>French style leans toward more ornamentation, but usually the execution is
>quite elegant (I know that's a vague word, but it's the best I can do on
>the spur of the moment), the Italian seems to be less consistent than the
>others, the English is more sparse (sensible, straightforward), while the
>German assimilates all of these styles, giving them cohesion and form.
>Hail the conquering hero and all that.  If you want to see them in a
>nutshell and judge for yourself, again we are fortunate in JSB.  Listen to
>the French Suites, the English Suites, the Italian Concerto and then any
>of the organ works, maybe the Kunst der Fuge, that's the height, I guess.
>Check for "authentic" performances or check out the Henle editions.
>Actually, I suppose the church works are the most "German," maybe the
>Passions, or any of the Chorale-Preludes.
>
>I suppose the "deep" eastern Europeans didn't buy into the Baroque style
>as much as those within easy travelling distance.  Those who were more
>into their own ethnicity.  And of course Scarlatti is an entity unto
>himself, though his dates coincide exactly with Bach's.  Actually,
>Scarlatti was on the forefront, many of his Essercizi foreshadow the
>_Empfindsamer Stile_ to follow in the next generation, with old CPE.  You
>can see how the different geographical styles solidify (another poor
>choice of descriptor, but what can you do?), by watching what happens to
>them in the very late 1700's, around the Bach kids' time.
>
ends


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