Re: GG and Mennonites

[Lorenzo Fanti <fantilollo@hotmail.com>]

Hello Bradley,
it is really interesting what you wrote...it could compare like a well
working body, wich individual organs, are humans of this "entire".
But i don´t understand why they want to stay apart and to have some measure
of separation from mainstream society: practicing Christians, who prepare
their life on the next, are "integrated" in the society.  Thus, they live
completely normally, and pursue the ideals, (how you said, e.g., to maintain
the Peace, nonresistance emphasis...find alternatives to violent responses,
etc.) without being partitioned by the society.  GG wanted to be (again!)
someone special...
and it is generally like that that I do not understand why the people want
to divide itself in groups. There are the catholics, there are the
protestants, there are Muslims and Jews and evenly also the Menoniten.  Why?
these groups believe nevertheless all in the same God;  they want to pursue
their ideals, as I already said.  My parents did not let baptize me as I
were born, because they wanted that i will understand (teach myselves) what
I have to believe in or not. And finally I believe.  But i´m not in a church
or so..... capito?
I think that GG didn´t have no concret belive.......    either, or.  yes or
not.

Do you think that GG went each Sunday to the service ?or, that he prayed?
:D
it would be really cool!
I hope that it wasn´t an all too difficult criticism
best wishes  from Germany
Lorenzo




----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley P Lehman" <bpl@UMICH.EDU>
To: <F_MINOR@EMAIL.RUTGERS.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 11:19 PM
Subject: GG and Mennonites


> John Grant wrote:
>
> >Yes, there are many Mennonites up here, but their practices are not
> >monolithic.   I buy very good meat from them in Toronto, but from a
> >fellow (Mennonite) who actually drives a truck (not a horse and buggy)!
>
> Trucks and cars are more the norm than the exception, considering the many
> different types of Mennonites.  That is, in terms of worldwide membership,
> most Mennonites today don't have many immediately obvious lifestyle
> differences as compared with Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, etc.
> among other Christian denominations.
>
> The Mennonite ways are not really typically Protestant, but neither are
> they Catholic...it's traditionally (and still) a "third way."  It's
> somewhat closer to Protestant than Catholic, though.  As Lorenzo
> mentioned, historically the Mennonite paths go back to the 16th century.
>
> Two of the most substantial distinguishing features are:
>
> - Peace/nonresistance emphasis...find alternatives to violent responses
> wherever possible.  Treat everyone in as humanitarian a manner as
> possible, respectfully and in service projects.  That includes a refusal
> to participate in wars; historically, Mennonites have found many ways to
> serve others in lieu of military service.  [I suspect this humanitarian
> angle was one of the most attractive features for Glenn Gould.]
>
> - Baptism of believers at the person's own choice, as an adult or teenager
> rather than as a baby; typically we have "infant dedications" for the
> family and friends, where others would do a baptism, and then typically we
> become members (baptized) by choice somewhere between age 13 and 25.
>
> A third distinction is some measure of separation from mainstream society.
> This might be mostly spiritual/attitudinal, or perhaps a more physical
> separation (living away from cities, dressing in conspicuous simplicity,
> choosing not to have powered vehicles, parochial schools, etc.).  There
> are all kinds of Mennonites, drawing that line at different places.
>
> - My family and many of my friends are the most "modern" type of
> Mennonite: OK on cars, higher education, OK on electricity, all the latest
> technology, dress like others in mainstream society...our Mennonite
> identity is as much ethnic background as anything.  That plus an attempt
> to have an at least *somewhat* simple lifestyle.
>
> - Many of my neighbors here are "Old Order" Mennonites: in many ways like
> the Amish.  My neighbors drive only horse and buggy...but they have modern
> tractors, lawnmowers, and other power equipment, plus bicycles.  Many
> refuse to have electricity or a telephone in the house, but it's OK to
> have it in a barn or other place of work.  The style of dress is mostly
> plain.  They have their own one-room schoolhouse just up the road from my
> house, and the children either walk or ride bikes.  There is a lot of
> specialization in the community around here: a buggy maker, a sawmill, a
> harness maker, a farm-implement shop, butchers, etc...and they produce a
> very high standard of work, mostly in support of all the farming by
> everybody else.  (So here I sit in the middle of all this, playing
> harpsichord professionally and developing business software for a big-city
> company, and my wife is a university instructor; we're sort of out of sync
> with our neighbors!)  People's personal integrity around here is
> extraordinary:  kindness and looking out for one another, treating others
> fairly and doing good work.  Nobody around here would dream of doing lawn
> work or hanging laundry on a Sunday, it's just not done.
>
> - Then there are other smaller Mennonite groups as well, around here and
> elsewhere.  Some say it's OK to have cars but only if the bumper is
> painted flat black (chrome shows too much pride in worldly things)...I saw
> a black Mercedes with black bumpers a few days ago!  Another group divided
> a couple generations ago over the question of having hydraulics or not on
> your horse-drawn wagon.  Others have distinctions on dress, buggy style,
> family connections, or all the above.  Some stop the formal education at
> eighth grade, and then it's time to go to work.  Some have large families,
> others small.  Some groups have traditionally stayed with German, Swiss,
> or Russian dialects even when living in English-speaking countries.
> There are some large groups of Spanish-speaking Mennonites, too.
>
> Some Mennonites make very little use of credit, or insurance, or the
> media; like use of the electric grid or gasoline-powered vehicles, this
> would bring them too closely into mainstream society and defeat the
> purpose of remaining somewhat apart.  There is theological and lifestyle
> debate about all sorts of things.  The common theme is trying to live by
> biblical principles, especially the New Testament...and of course there's
> plenty of disagreement how to interpret and do that most faithfully.
>
> =====
>
>
> An illustration of the integrity that I mentioned: last week my wife and I
> were sitting on our front steps enjoying the cool of the evening, watching
> the sunset, and being with our dog.  Presently the neighboring family
> walked over with all three children, to visit and to get to know us and
> just enjoy the time.  And they brought along a bag of dog food and gave it
> to us!  They explained that their own dog had recently brought home part
> of a bag stolen from somewhere, and they thought it might have been from
> our garage, so they wanted to reimburse us or just give it as a gift,
> whichever.
>
> Another time, from last year: I was mowing my front lawn and racing to get
> done before dark.  Another neighbor drove past on his mower, or *started*
> to drive past, but he veered onto my yard and did several big loops to
> help me get done in time!  And then he drove off and continued on his way,
> merely exchanging a wave of "thanks" and "you're welcome" with not a word
> said.
>
> Or people will share surplus produce from gardens, or let their irrigation
> system help others' property when things are dry.  My wife gives English
> lessons to our Russian-speaking neighbors to help them get along here.
> People help out where a need is seen, in exchange for nothing.
>
> -----
>
> I suspect that this overriding notion of separation was also very
> attractive to Gould...he made it obvious in his work (Solitude Trilogy and
> writings and interviews) that he was that type of person.  The individual
> keeps integrity by deliberately pulling away from the status quo, choosing
> a way apart.  Opt out of other people's expectations....
>
> These are the types of issues Gould was trying to draw out in his "Quiet
> in the Land" radio programme, exploring how a particular group of
> Mennonites (Red River, in Manitoba) blended solitude and community.  That
> was part 3 of the Solitude Trilogy.
>
>
> =====
>
>
> My review of Gould's "QITL" programme that I mentioned earlier:
> http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~mwatts/glenn/QITL.htm
>
> A basic reading list about who/what Mennonites are:
> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/mennread.html
>
> An official Mennonite Church USA web site specializing in that
> introductory type of information:
> http://www.thirdway.com/
>
>
> =====
>
>
> Bradley Lehman, Dayton VA
> home: http://i.am/bpl  or  http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl
> CDs: http://listen.to/bpl or http://www.mp3.com/bpl
>
> "Music must cause fire to flare up from the spirit - and not only sparks
> from the clavier...." - Alfred Cortot
>