RE: [F_minor] Beethoven sonatas (was Gibbons on piano)

["Houpt, Fred" <fred.houpt@rbc.com>]

It reminds me of why von Karajan and Alfred Brendel went back and
re-recorded so much Beethoven, over and over again. After years of
contemplation, they see different things.  As did Glenn with the
Goldberg's.  In essence then I suspect that there is no such thing as a
perfect tempo marking and that although the composer had the final word
on the notes on the page, it then leaves his/her hands and goes to the
factory of interpreters.  We, the listeners then pick and choose what
tickles our fancy, arguing with some intelligence to defend what we
enjoy or what turns us off.  

Fred 

-----Original Message-----
From: f_minor-bounces@email.rutgers.edu
[mailto:f_minor-bounces@email.rutgers.edu] On Behalf Of Charles McElwain
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 12:11 PM
To: f_minor@email.rutgers.edu
Subject: RE: [F_minor] Beethoven sonatas (was Gibbons on piano)
Importance: High

Or that there is a, is *one*, correct indication.  There's a rat hole
here: Either there is *one* right interpretation, metronome, etc., which
is the composer's *singular*, and printed, intention, in which case
there should be slavish attention to the some form of Urtext. 
And then we need far fewer musicians, to occasionally produce new
recordings when technology changes.

Or, a composer could be "wrong", simply have offered suggestions, change
his/her mind, "evolve" his/her mind, potentially be convinced, or simply
appreciative, by some alternative introduced by another interpreter at
arbitrary remove in time and place.

Ultimately, the proof of an interpretation is the "musicality" of that
interpretation, and that is a question of individual perception, not a
Platonic form.  The best interpretations are usually those
*informed* by history, but not subjugated to history; but even sometimes
those completely uninformed by history (if that is even
possible) can be compelling.  Some or many "authentic" 
interpretations are convincing; some or many are not.  Some or many
"alternative" interpretations are convincing; some or many are not.

This puts an extreme responsibility on the listener; they cannot simply
say, "oh, this conforms to the tradition of what is the correct
interpretation".  (Tradition being "the last bad performance" 
- once "tradition" indicated a Pleyel harpsichord; now, for a good
laugh, listen to harpsichordists, say on the HPSCHD-L analogue to
F_minor rant against Pleyels.)

Neither *should* they just say, "it's what I like".  I'm *not* here
saying, "it's simply what I like, and you can't argue with me" - there
should always be reasoned, as well as emotional, responses, and these
should be verbalized for critical discussion.  How else can you discover
new things?

Towards a Popperian (or Feyerabendian :-) ) critically rational theory
of musical listening, Charles


At 10:58 AM -0400 3/17/08, Houpt, Fred wrote:
>This brings up a very important point.  Who is to say that the composer
>is correct 100% of the time when he/she indicates speed of playing? 
>
>Regards.
>
>Fred Houpt
>Toronto
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: f_minor-bounces@email.rutgers.edu
>[mailto:f_minor-bounces@email.rutgers.edu] On Behalf Of Charles
McElwain
>Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 5:02 PM
>To: f_minor@email.rutgers.edu
>Subject: Re: [F_minor] Beethoven sonatas (was Gibbons on piano)
>
>At 12:01 PM -0400 3/14/08, Brad Lehman wrote:
>>
>>The one Gould performance of Beethoven that I'd say is at "ludicrous
>>speed" (thank you, Mel Brooks's "Spaceballs") is the finale of the
>>sonata #5 in C minor.  It's so fast that in at least one spot he
really
>
>>DID NOT even play the notes.  I slowed down a tape of it once, to
check
>
>>it.
>>
>
>When Gould's recording of the Hammerklavier was released, in comparison
>to the recordings I then had of the sonata, it seemed that Gould
>actually had internalized the passage in Fred Hoyle's classic science
>fiction novel, "The Black Cloud", where an alien (super) intelligence
>establishing communication with scientists on Earth hears a recording
of
>the first movement, and sends a message back:
>
>"Very interesting.  Please repeat the first part at a speed increased
by
>thirty per cent."
>
>Beethoven's metronome advice for the first movement was a half note =
>138.  Gould's timing for the first movement was 11'04".  In comparing
to
>what I currently have on hand, Nikolayeva's first movement is 14'30".
>The cloud would probably have approved of Gould's version.
>On the other hand, even Gould's pales in comparison to Badura-Skoda's
>9'47" (on an 1824 Graf).
>
>Myself, I'm not sure I'd use the Hammerklavier, or even Beethoven, as
an
>introduction to an alien super intelligence.  I'd go with Lewis
Thomas's
>advice here, even if it was bragging.
>
>Charles

-- 

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Charles McElwain
33 Vernon Street
Somerville, MA 02145
617-628-5542 (home)
617-501-1591 (cell)
charlesmcelwain1@verizon.net

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