Re: What would Theodore Slutz say?

[Birgitte Jorgensen <bj@kemmunet.net.mt>]

I am beginning to feel like I'm in a surreal SNL "CrossFire" skit. I am also
starting to dread what I find in my personal Inbox. This is a public
list, so
anyone, especially someone I don't know, who sends me a personal email
like the
one I am copying below deserves to have it aired. I never trust anyone who
prefaces a character assassination with "I like you, BUT..."

Jim Morrison's email is so riddled with contradictions and bile that I
find it
beneath contempt to answer. In any case, I think this list has heard quite
enough from me for awhile.

Birgitte Jorgensen



Jim Morrison wrote:

> I've noticed you can't stand to let anyone else have the last word, just
> like me.
>
> >If you now regard your comments as "over-simplified" it has
> > nothing to do with anything I subjected them to.
>
> Birgitte, this is far too cocky of an attitude to have and I think you
> should take an antidote to whatever "I'm so smart and wonderful and never
> misunderstand or oversimplify anyone arguments" potion you are taking.
>
> Really.
>
> You're smart, often entertaining, but you can be rude, and I'm not sure that
> our hero GG would appreciate that.  I know I don't, and to tell the truth,
> it looks a bit unflattering on a web list devote to such a kind man to have
> you, in his very name, be so unkind to me in public.
>
> >
> > And, you must admit that for someone who claimed to be ill-equipped to
> > discuss the topic of Gould's psychology, you certainly had a great deal
> > to say in your many postings before declaring your intention NOT to
> > discuss it further!!
>
> Another one of your rude messages, or is it a joke? It's hard to tell, but I
> see that most of your jokes are directed at me and hardly ever at yourself.
> Not a good sign.  You ask me questions,.Brigitte.  You tell me I'm wrong and
> then you make a wisecrack like this because I try to defend myself in
> public.  You too said you were reluctant to discuss Gould's life and yet you
> write a lot about him AND as far as I can tell, think he was a perfect human
> being.
>
> So tell me Brigitte, is there anything you think Gould could have improved
> upon?
>
> And notice I'm not saying this to you over the list.  Why would you want to
> be so rude to me in public?  It's not nice to say someone is SO mistaken
> about SO many things in public.  This email isn't nice, I know, but please,
> I feel attacked here.
>
> >
> > Sometimes, but it's by no means a determining factor. I know perfectly
> > healthy people who prefer to live alone, although I am not one of them.
>
> Here's a classic case of oversimplification.  I didn't say ALL human beings
> would suffer or die early or not thrive from being alone.  I meant to say
> that I've looked at statistics that say if you live alone you don't have the
> life expectancy of people that live with others. I've also read that having
> pets is likely to improve your life expectancy and quality of life as well,
> that women who have had babies live longer as well.
>
>  Why not be generous and charity and try to see some sense in what I say
> instead of contradicting me all the time like you do?  Do you think that's
> all this list mainly is for, contradicting others and making your own
> proclamations on human nature?  How about complimenting Bradley for his
> in-depth analysis of the harpsichord?  How about saying thanks to Anne for
> all her funny and links emails?  How about making this list a more cheerful
> place instead of  a forum for argument?
>
> Thank you for saying, by the way, that you don't live in solitude.  So tell
> me, having decided to live with people, how can you be so sure that Gould
> choose the right thing for himself?  How do you know so much about him that
> you can be certain about his psyche?   As every bit presumptuous as I am
> being towards his life.
>
> >
> .
> >
> > Oops, how did the Yamaha slip in there with the litany of
> > eccentricities?
>
> Because it's not a great sounding piano.  Are you telling me you prefer it
> to a Steinway?
>
> They're not simply eccentricities by the way?  Some of them are faults.  Why
> can't you see this?  Is Gould fault free?  Are all human being faultless?
> Give me one fault of Gould's please?  Can you even name one?
> >
> > never condescending, a man of genuine warmth, kindness, and
> > humility.
>
> Please try to follow his lead in this matter and show more of these traits
> towards you fellow list members.  I promise you that you'll get further with
> us, more love and appreciation, if you do.  We all want to share on this
> list.  That's why we're members.  Not to be directly challenged so often
> like you do.  God I'm tired of it, so frustrated by it.
>
> >>
>
> >
> > Depends on how you define "friends" and "communicate."
>
> Right and you look for many opportunities to quibble about definitions.
>
> >Metaphorically
> > speaking, we can,
>
> a metaphorical friend, please, Brigitte.  That sounds like no kind of
> friend.  is that how people mostly speak of friends?
>
> Did I say "metaphorical" friend?  No I said real friend, as my post makes
> clear, and instead of saying you're right, you contradict, throwing down the
> "metaphorical" friend card.
>
> >as in the communal form of the GG Foundation's
> > "Friends of Glenn Gould." I think many people on the list and members of
> > the society, not just Valeria, Kate and I, would agree with that.
>
> Ahhh, are you appealing to the authorities or democratic vote here?
> Because if we are doing that, I'd like to start counting hands and seeing
> how many people think Gould needed some help.  I'm not talking only
> about the friends of the Glenn gould foundation, but perhaps people that
> are, lets say, less interested in him.
>
> >
> > >.
> >
> > >. You have
> > mentioned a number of times your familiarity with "32 Short Films About
> > Glenn Gould," but you've also said that you are not very knowledgeable
> > about Gould's life, so I am guessing that you have absorbed most of what
> > you know about him from this movie?
>
> But you're wrong.  I think I know about most of the inconsistencies that
> movie, as well
> as how much of it was based on fact.  I've researched it.
>
> > screenwriter has taken some liberties with reality.
>
> I know.
>
> >Not that total
> > veracity is the hallmark of any biopic I've ever seen,
>
> total veracity of any biography is impossible.  The very idea of it is
> outlandish.
>
> >In other words, if you're
> > looking for truly expository analysis, you'll find it somewhat shallow.
>
> And who has written the deep biography, and what is your position of
> authority  to judge it?
>
> And just where are these anecdotes about Gould's self-sacrifice to others,
> because I have read some bios on him and the examples of charity and
> selfishlessness  are few and far between.  How do you know so much about him
> that others don't know?
>
> I mean, what are we to make of people that really sacrifice, like MLK and
> Ghandi and Jesus and Mother Teresa, if we raise Gould up to the level of
> sacrifice for humanity like you want to?  Please,  he was a good man that
> played the piano wonderfully, but he was not Saint Gould.
>
> Leaving money to the Human Society and Salvation Army?
>
> Nice, no doubt, but a more telling sacrifice would have been had he given a
> few benefit concerts for them, you know, like gone out of his way, like
> doing something that was uncomfortable to him FOR others.
>
> > On the liability of transforming Gould into a movie character, Don
> > McKellar, the scriptwriter reported in an interview that while flipping
> > through The Celestine Prophesies" at an airport bookshop, he came across
> > an inspirational quote from Glenn Gould, then realized it had been
> > lifted straight from the movie and the words he was reading were
> > entirely his own fiction!
>
> That's a great story, thanks for sharing it.
>
> >
> > It's a bit like composing a segmental movie on Elvis (32 States of
> > Graceland From The King) in which every Elvis cliché is given an airing:
>
> What's all this talk of cliches, the self interview?  45 seconds in a chair?
> that he didn't practice at the piano?  That he composed radio dramas?
> That he took a lot of pills?  That he liked to stay in hotels?  That he
> shared music
> with maids?  That he liked to talk to people on the phone.  That his piano
> tuner
> like him?  that he was annoyed by people asking him about relationships?
> That voyager went up with a recording of his (prelude in  C Major from Book
> II, I know,
> not book I.)
>
> Those are the truth and to speak of them as a cliche is what I would call
> misrepresentation.
>
> You Elvis examples are all grotesque, nothing like many of the kind,
> complimentary
> episodes of 32 short films.  Even the drug taking episode was an innovative
> shot.
> without showing us a picture of drugged up Gould.  That movie was a homage
> to Gould,
> not the character assignation of your Elvis movie.
>
> What should they have included in the film?  What should they have omitted?
> If you're going to slam the movie like you do, please offer some specific
> constructive
> criticism.
>
>  "Our judgements of Gould are flawed by his closeness to us
> > in the continuum of history."
>
> ahh, and We'll be able to make better judgements about him when he's been
> dead for a thousand years?  Really?  I don't think so.  It becomes, in a
> way, easier, because there's life facts and first hand evidence to go upon,
> and less other people to consider that will clutter and complicate and make
> difficult our evaluation of the person in question.
>
> > "The dangers of idolatry applied to such a
> > complex artist so early in his historical existence place our ultimate
> > appreciation of him at risk."
>
> Idolatry I think is a word you should ponder.
> >
> > Kate wrote, in bafflement
>
> did you have to use the bafflement?
> over Jim's woman-at-the-door fable:
> > >I'm getting A bit confused about where this thread is going....
> >
>
> ahh, it had to do with something about people being good for us,
> about people being some of the best things in life, about how good
> things in life are quite often missed when we are either rude or
> secluded from them.  Really, how could you have missed that?
>
> > Ditto, but one of the interesting aspects of a discussion list on the
> > Web, and the near-anonymity of its contributors, is the unique
> > opportunity to catch a glimpse of what's inside other people's heads.
> > You never know what you'll find in there.
>
> Sounds like you think I have not much in mine.
> >
> > : "Yeah, well uh,
> > like. you know, whatever."
> >
>
> Not very kind statements Birgitte.  Quite rude in fact, ending a commentary
> of my comments with "whatever."  Friends, not even metaphorical ones, don't
> treat friends like that.
>
> > Birgitte
> >
> >. If it's available in digital form, I would be grateful
> > if you could post it on the list for us.
>
> and so after a long emails of attack and destroy, she says something nice,
> which I appreciate.
>
> how about sprinkling more of these sorts of things in your postings?
>
> I mean, who taught you that you can contradict someone as much as you have
> and then ask a favor of them?
>
> I'm not that toughskinned Birgitte.
>
> I'm a human being over here, not some dead pianist and you have hurt my
> feelings and I have in turned lashed back at you.
>
> I would prefer to be your friend though, because I think we can have a
> fruitful relationship if we'd stop arguing with each other and say more nice
> things, not just about each other, but about the other group members and the
> recordings of GG (maybe even DFW, what happened to him?  why did you come
> back with some nice comments about DFW?  Why so many challenges?  Relax
> Brigitte.  What do you think you have to prove?  Who are you defending? )
>
> I'd like to be your friend, but I just can't be be friends with such a
> contradictory and argumentive person as you appear to be from your recent
> postings.
>
> That's what I mean by truce, and peace offering.  You and me changing out
> ways to better get along and facilitate the sharing of Glenn Gould and Bach
> and keyboard music and music in general (and sometime stories and other
> interesting tid-bits over the list, even if they do sometime baffle others.)
>
> So what do you say.  How about firing off a few "here's a cool quote or
> story about glenn gould" email?
>
> And then I'll say something nice about it.
>
> And you can say something nice in return.
>
> Please?  Pretty please?
>
> Jim



Jim Morrison wrote:

> Hi birgitte,
>
> look,
>
> i know you're not as bad as I made you sound in that email.
>
> You do say nice things about other list members.
>
> I just so tired of you arguing with me and trying to cut me down.
>
> So please stop.
>
> Okay?
>
> Can we make a deal.
>
> You stop contradicting me and I'll stop contradicting you.
>
> Okay?
>
> Let's talk about Bradley and John's recording and the Art of Fugue video
> instead.
>
> What do you say?
>
> And how about giving us your favorite Gould/Bach movement.
>
> Jim