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Re: [F_minor] doubts II



Hi! I'm not really a musician or musical expert in any way. But it might be
interesting for you to hear a "common man's view"...

I learned of Bach and Mozart through books like 2001 Space Odyssey, I made a
great effort to listen to these composers (in the radio) and at first it was
difficult, but after many hours my brain started distinguishing some of
those notes and it became clearer, the melody, some aspects of the harmony,
music started making sense, it started "talking" to me. There was also this
portuguese poet "Herberto Helder" who was always speaking about a specific
music by Bach, and then I got in touch with Gustav Leonhardt's deep, sad,
mystical interpretations, and that got me really going through much of my
adolescence. The desire to listen to Gould also came from a book, written by
one of his friends right after his death (the book also talked about Sintra
- the place where I lived!). My first impression of the Goldberg Variations
(latest edition)  was really disappointing: it seemed so perfect but not as
I imagined it, it seemed played by a computer. All the hype from the book
had blinded me to the music. But when I heard it a second, and third, and
forth time... God, it was probably the most heard music of my life, I must
have listened to it hundreds of times, and even today it makes me delve into
mystery compartments of my mind/soul. That music really changed my life.

However things change over the years, today my favorite musician is Regina
Spektor (especially the first albums)!! And Mozart.

I still have the same admiration for Gould, perhaps more, but I think what I
search for now in my life is a bit different. Gould is like the
introspective in his room going deeper and deeper into the I, as if someone
was so close to a mirror, that he does not know where the mirror ends and he
himself starts. Today I'm searching for something different: dissolution. I
like simpler things, like Mozart played by Ingrid Haebler. One might say
that it is more "shallow", but to me it is simply more simple. An eye
without the I.

So, what I wanted to say, as someone who really does not know much about
music, is the trivial: it all depends on what we are looking for. It's not
so much the question of whether is right or wrong, but does it interest me
or not. In any case Gould seems to me (as far as I can see) insuperable in
his own style.

Thanks for this list!
pedro

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:39 PM, Singh <k_dawg71@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Well said. I agree as well. Music is personal. Some genres are equally
> repelling to me, but I never turn down anyone's offer to listen to any type
> of music. I try to, although I know its not always possible or true,
> approach music with a mind entirely opened to wherever it may take me. That
> is why I like Glenn Gould so much...he took me where other performers never
> could, and that is what I (as an aspiring musician) strive to do as well
> with my music.
>
> Singh
>
>
>
> Subject: RE: [F_minor] doubts IIDate: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:29:19 -0500From:
> fred.houpt@rbc.comTo: k_dawg71@hotmail.com; bpl@umich.edu;
> f_minor@email.rutgers.edu
>
>
> I agree 100%.  The thing is what works for some doesn't work for others.
>  Right?  How many different ways are there to play Chopin? Impossible to
> count them.
>
> Music is magic.  We resonate in sympathy to vibrations.  Try to think at
> what level of "being" we must channel if we resonate with gangsta rap or
> super heavy metal music?  I mean, I can't go there......
>
> When I was younger I just could not listen to American country music,
> period.  It made my skin crawl and I'd quickly change the dial or shut the
> music down if on television.  Then I watched three films: "Cold Mountain",
>  "Song Catcher" and "O brother, where art thou?".  Everything changed for
> me.  I suddenly opened up my mind (?) to these new sounds and I was a
> changed person.  Now I have made room in my self for the love of brand new
> genres that bring me endless joy.
>
> The human spirit is essentially a mystery to us, how it moves, what choices
> it makes.  We evolve and devolve and we are attracted to all kinds of
> stimulations.  As a life long musician, I am lucky to having had exposure to
> classical music from my earliest days.  Gould is not the only artist I
> admire.  I can go on and on about others.  For example, I am of the opinion
> that Ravi Shankar is probably the greatest all round musician in the last 50
> years.  He blows me away and his musical knowledge and talents are of such a
> highly sophisticated type that to compare him to western musicians is to be
> disrespectful of him.  IMHO.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred
>
>
> From: Singh [mailto:k_dawg71@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008
> 5:12 PMTo: Houpt, Fred; bpl@umich.edu; f_minor@email.rutgers.eduSubject:
> RE: [F_minor] doubts II
> Perhaps the discussion should not be how authentic it is, but if it works
> or not. It seems to me pointless arguing about authenticity, in the manner
> of 'Bach would have played it that way.' It seems to me that although we may
> get general ideas about Bach's style, it is impossible to imagine what such
> a genius would have done with a keyboard, when left alone with it. Singh>
> Subject: RE: [F_minor] doubts II> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:32:15 -0500>
> From: fred.houpt@rbc.com> To: bpl@umich.edu; f_minor@email.rutgers.edu> >
> This line of discussion is where we have our best ideas worked over. > >
> What is an accurate and historically correct interpretation, eh? Gustav
> Leonhardt's Bach? I mean, did he play it as if Bach had sat down and
> plunked? And then again, would Bach have changed his style of playing as he
> moved from a harpsichord over to a mighty Steinway concert grand? I figure
> that given enough hours of practicing with what it could do, I bet you that
> Bach himself would have changed his style of playing. If so, then why are we
> so off-side with GG's Bach? He played it on a 1000 horsepower monster;
> Bach's was 150 horsepower tinkler. The modern grand evokes changes to
> interpretation that Bach could only have had the slightest of ideas about.
> Bach knew what grand sounds were like: the organs he played on were massive
> affairs and could almost blow your eardrums out. But, the keyboards were
> puny by our standards. > > You raise other ideas that sound like the
> mannerisms and articulations of the styles, be they German, French, Italian
> and English. Again, how are we to know what the politically correct
> mannerism is supposed to sound like? When GG does a turn and a twist, is his
> articulation suspect because his mind has filtered it through so much post
> modern music? I find that this is too harsh on him. Music is both felt and
> researched from a "historical" perspective, is it not? GG arrived at his own
> comfortable measure as his ego, mind, imagination and instinct blended with
> his curiosity and aesthetic tastes.....and we have him giving us as personal
> a JS Bach as any player we have ever heard or will hear. How can it be
> otherwise? > > Cheers,> > Fred> > -----Original Message-----> From:
> f_minor-bounces@email.rutgers.edu [mailto:
> f_minor-bounces@email.rutgers.edu] On Behalf Of Brad Lehman> Sent:
> Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:04 PM> To: f_minor@email.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: [F_minor] doubts II> > michael macelletti wrote:> > the point
> is that beethoven and mozart really have> > something to offer. when gg
> superimposes his personality > on them it comes out in a strange way. mozart
> appears > to be under the influence of " fun-house " mirrors.> > So does
> GG's Bach. :) It's such a stylistic mash. He played it as if Bach's music
> follows Schoenberg's rules. He deconstructed Bach's music, similar to the
> way Rosalyn Tureck did with it. It's interesting, of course, but it doesn't
> really have anything to do with the French and Italianate features of the
> music; he stripped those out. GG's Bach certainly has sold well, always. It
> still has next to nothing to do with Baroque principles, though.> >
> Eventually (and I've said this before, years ago), GG's Bach became more
> "Glenn Gould's Bach" or "GG's deconstructions of Bach as if Schoenberg had
> written it" than "Bach as played by Glenn Gould". I am aware that that's
> probably a minority view in present company. :)> > > beethoven and brahms
> appear manic-depressive , with the> > manic going to beethoven, and the
> depressive going to brahms.> > chopin appears to be transformed into wood.>
> > Well said.> > > with bach, it works. it works superbly. but it really
> seems > to be limited to there. ---- and the new works he comes up > with ?
> well, that's obviously a contrarian approach.> > a very smart idea in a
> world full of pianists who can play > everything.> > Canny marketing by GG;
> agreed.> > > i mean , who would want to perform the tchaikovsky> > first
> concerto knowing that many have heard the greatest> > recordings of it
> already.----- but really !> > works like those of schoenberg and webern are
> just good > for the colored pencil industry. they come in very handy >
> trying to analyze them.> > I have to disagree with this part. I think GG's
> interpretations of Schoenberg's music are GG's best work. He put it across
> directly as music, making it warm and inviting INSTEAD OF intellectual
> colored-pencil exercises. He played Schoenberg's p 11, especially, as if it
> were several more Brahms intermezzi (another of his best recordings). That
> works. It emphasizes Schoenberg's romanticism, and what Schoenberg said
> about his own approach.> > When GG then turned around and recorded Bach
> suites as if they're dozens more "wanna-be" examples of Schoenberg's Suite
> Op 25, just having different notes...well, that doesn't work so well.
> Entertaining, yes. > Brilliant in a way that's _sui generis_. Marketable,
> too. "GG's Bach," > reducing the music to the motivic level and lining it up
> with great creativity and clarity...not being content with merely playing it
> for what it is. GG didn't allow Bach's music to emerge on its own terms, or
> in its own stylistic and historical contexts. It had to be made "new", in
> terms of what was sort of new in about 1950. It was Bach as seen through the
> off-rose-colored neoclassicism of Hindemith, Schoenberg, and Stravinsky. Oh
> yeah, Hindemith: another of GG's strengths as an interpreter.> > GG's own
> string quartet? The style of early Schoenberg and Hindemith, warmed over,
> with a heavy dose of Reger.> > > Brad Lehman>
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> Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it
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> If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or
> otherwise) immediately.
>
> Ce courrier électronique est confidentiel et protégé. L'expéditeur ne
> renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent.
> Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements
> qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s)
> désigné(s) est interdite.
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